Black & White vs Color

[Michael P]

Alan,

Seeing all the new sketches and uninked drawings on the front page as really made me want to see all the recent Uncanny issues in solely black and white. I know you have made some comments about your distaste for the choice of colorists, w/o naming names of course and I agree most of the colors were horrid, with the exception of Frank D'armata.

Have you ever done a completly black and white comic? Or even one uninked? I think the colors over uninked pencils would compliment your work lovely or solely black and white inks. I would love if Marvel would reprint some of your work sans colors, its not likely, but it would be great.

One more question, Do you ever ink your own work? I know its very hard to do so with schedule restrictions, but is it hard to trust others to compliment your work? Well I suppose you grew to trust Mark Farmer and Paul Neary, but in the beginning was it hard? I'm an aspiring comic penciller and I was just wondering, is the normal protocol that the penciller chooses the inker?

Sorry for all the questions, but hey thats what this place is for right?

-Michael

[Alan Davis]

Michael

-- I should maybe clarify my opinion about colouring.
Although the majority of comics from my childhood (in the UK) were published in black and white, those printed in full colour were produced by some of the world’s best colour artists—Frank Bellamy, Frank Hampson, Ron Embleton, Don Lawrence and John M Burns (to name a few). I love GOOD colouring.
The criteria used to judge the quality of colour will always be subjective but one fact I believe indisputable is that comics SHOULD be about storytelling. I will often sacrifice a ‘money-shot’ or illustrative image in favour of story and continuity. In my experience some of the current colourists are Alex Ross or Adam Hughes wannabes who use their extremely limited skills and Photoshop shortcuts to focus on the areas in which they are competent or can impress those with magpie sensibilities-- And whether through ego, ignorance or lack of talent, this often results in a contemptuous disregard of the storytelling work I, and Mark Farmer, have drawn. The easiest example to describe is of a Nightcrawler headshot I drew focusing on his expressive eyes—except that the colourist decided Nightcrawler’s eyes should always glow like ‘full-beam’ headlights and totally erased the eyes. The image became about Nightcrawlers glowing eyes rather than the emotion he was feeling/expressing. Irrespective of the quality of the ‘illustrative’ gloss, these cheap effects are entirely about the colourist stamping his mark on the art with pointless and inappropriate pyrotechnic displays. But the only way a reader could know the full extent of what has been lost is by comparing the blackline art to a published page (But what’s the point?!). I have tried to negotiate with some of the colourists but it proved pointless. One colourist said he was willing to consider my views but wouldn’t compromise HIS ‘art’. NUFF SAID!
Fortunately there are still serious professionals like John Kalisz in the industry who are willing to do his best within the restraints of the ‘system’ to enhance the STORY.

-- All of my early UK continuity artwork was inked by myself to be published in black and white. My only b/w work in recent years was for Batman: Gotham Knights #25 3/02 (“Last call at McSurley’s.” written by Mike Barr) and inked by Mark Farmer. The majority of the work I have drawn for American comics was drawn for colour and the fact some of it looks better without colour is a sad indictment of the colouring—and the fact it often obscures storytelling, structure, depth or focus… And the quality of Mark Farmer’s inking.
Some of my more recent work is closer to the way I approach B/W art because I had started to draw more defensively in an attempt to minimise the damage a colourist might inflict by adding more blacks and modelling.

I don’t know what the usual arrangement between penciller and inkers might be. When I first started work on Batman and the Outsiders I was still writing, pencilling and inking Captain Britain so when the deadlines began to bite I asked Paul Neary if he would care to ink my pencils. Paul was still pencilling during the time we worked together and when his priorities changed I teamed up with Mark. I think most editors realised we worked well together and have been willing to employ us as a team.

Alan

[Michael P]

Wow! Thanks Alan, for the quick reply. I completely agree on everything you just said about the colors. It seems to be more about special effects and textures than actually complimenting the art. You are one of, if not my top, favorite penciller. It shames me when they colors drag your pencils and Mark's inks. Could a penciller of your caliber request a certain colorist or are they hired without your knowledge?

I loved the your and Jamie Delano's Captain Britain. When you ink(ed) your own work did you find yourself inking parts before you wer done with the pencils or going back and fixing things up? Things you cant do with an inker. I will have to check out Batman: Gotham Knights #25.

I noticed how you have begun to draw "defensively" over the years. I remember during Excalibur you art was alot more airy and open with minimalistc inks and crosshatching. However back then the coloring was basically one or two tones. Now I can see how your art has alot more inks and crosshatching. I have to say I love this so much more. It has so much more life.

As I said before I am an aspiring comic penciller, I am pretty much self taught, but I do use your art as inspiration for angles and shading. Are there BIG things I should do when trying to break in? I plan on submitting some pages and covers to Marvel, DC and maybe Dark Horse or Image, once I am not so sick. Would you recommend I submit inked, uninked or a mix of both?

Thanks again

-Michael

[DungeonmasterJim]

I think it'll be interesting if Marvel decides to keep doing the 'Essentials' line of books when the current crop of today's books become older. I'm guessing not because of trade paperbacks though. But it would be quite interesting to see the original black and white work without some of today's colors.

And Alan's not alone in not liking some of today's colorists. I was at my local shop talking to a DC artist. Jamal something - he drew Firestorm (I think) for awhile. He was rather upset over having spent a lot of time trying to get a panel of a character falling from a great height just right. And then only to have the colorist outright eliminate much his line work in favor of special effects. Blurring of the image if I remember correctly.

I know I'm not Alan, Michael, but I keep hearing face to face time with an editor is the best way to break in. Or to become friends with comic creators and eventually over time, let them know you are avaliable for comics work.

No one I've talked to can remember a person getting a comics job through snail mail submissions.

Of course, it really sucks that Wizard World Boston was cancelled since it was the biggest 'name' con in our area.

Jim

[Row]

Michael,

Alan will no doubt know better than me, but here's my two penniesworth.

From my experience, Jim is talking a lot of sense, talk to artists and editors at cons, let them see your work and listen to the suggestions they make about how to improve, if needed ( always carry a notebook to write down their comments).

If you wish to be a penciller, only take pencil samples, no pin ups, only strip work as they'll want to see your story telling ability (ranging from a quiet scene to full blown action, that way you've got all bases covered when an editor says "you can do action, but what about talking heads scenes").

Take a few extra copies of your pencils to leave with an editor if they like your stuff. Remember that it can be a long time from the end of a con to you sending more of your stuff into the editor, if requested to do so, and they may have forgotten who you are.

If you want to take inks too, make sure you take copies from the pencil art to show.

Another thing to try is look out for places like DigitalWebbing.com, they have a talent search board there that have ad's for pencillers, inkers etc to work on small press books, some are unpaid, some are paid, but it's a good way to build a portfolio of work to show at cons and get youself noticed ( plus it's a good way to get used to working to deadlines, rather than getting your big break with the majors and heaven forbid fail to make the deadline).

I've had editors go gaga at my work at cons, they've given me a name of their cheif editor to send to, or themselves but when I've sent stuff to them........ I've heard bugger all back ( not mentioning names........2000ad*cough*), just remember to have a thick skin and try not to take it personally, art like most things in life is subjective to the individual.

Jim,

shame about Wizard World Boston being cancelled, I was due to go to last year, but I was laid off by Kodak, along with another 3500 people here in the UK.... which put the whole thing off.

All the best.

Row.

[Alan Davis]

--Could a penciller of your caliber request a certain colorist or are they hired without your knowledge?

Michael, It is easier to pick an inker for a mini-series or special project and mainstream titles often have a colourist in residence or some previously agreed 'style'. I have never managed to build the sort of partnership with a colourist that I have had with inkers, possibly because my approach to visual storytelling (especially on team books) makes it hard work—and with less opportunity to show off. So it is usually a case of working with a colourist the editor says is ‘available’. This works well in some cases (as with John Kalisz, and Greg Wright) but it can go wrong-- in one instance I was sent samples of a colourists work to approve (and they looked good) but when I saw the first coloured pages I was surprised by a marked discrepancy. It transpired that the samples I had been sent were three years old and the colourist had completely changed his way of working. He claimed ‘ALL’ editors now demand dark rendering and ‘glow’ effects and the only way he could get work was by imitating that style. I don’t know if this is true but it would explain a lot.

Jim, The blur effect is another instance where colourists can obliterate hours of pencil and ink work in a matter of seconds… And it is a particularly destructive ‘computer-effect’, especially when applied inaccurately with no consideration to the movement involved or perspective. It would be interesting to see some of the offending colourists actually draw a page to gauge the limits of their artistic ability... I don’t think I’ll hold my breath.

-- I loved the your and Jamie Delano's Captain Britain. When you ink(ed) your own work did you find yourself inking parts before you were done with the pencils or going back and fixing things up?

When I ink myself, as with pencilling, my MO depends entirely on my mood and how confident I feel while I am working.
When I first began working in comics I often produced three pages of pencils and inks a day-- usually inking over the most minimalist breakdowns. Sometimes I surprised myself with the degree of success while on other occasions I had to plaster the page in gouache and patched redraws.
Depending on the complexity of the image, I would both pencil and ink faces and hands first, on the principle that they are the first thing a reader ‘reads, and fudge everything else as the layout allowed.
Nowadays, although I still ink over loose pencils I tend to rationalise the entire image before inking.


--Would you recommend I submit inked, uninked or a mix of both?

Micheal I have very little contact with Marvel or DC editorial. Most of the people I knew personally have been fired or quit over the last ten years and I really feel like an outsider myself. Having said that, I can’t really improve on the very sensible and balanced advice offered by Jim and Row...

“If you wish to be a penciller, only take pencil samples, no pin ups, only strip work as they'll want to see your story telling ability (ranging from a quiet scene to full blown action, that way you've got all bases covered when an editor says "you can do action, but what about talking heads scenes").”

“No one I've talked to can remember a person getting a comics job through snail mail submissions. “

The only thing I’d add is that it’s very easy to get locked into becoming what you think an editor might be looking to hire. Hone your craft and try to become more versatile but don’t stop drawing for enjoyment.

[Michael P]

Thanks so much, Alan.

I'm sorry to hear about you feeling like an outsider. Its odd that Marvel and DC do this to some of the best talent out there. I know from what Chris Claremont posts on Comixfan, Marvel can pretty be a tough place to work for. However, I still love Marvel's characters and its still my dream to work for them. I wouldn't mind DC either. They seem to give alot of work to new talent.

I've been drawing literally my entire life and have always been a comic fan and I really feel this is what I'm meant to do. I'm a painter and I think that gives me an edge. I hate those stylized artists who all look the same and think I have a unique style. Its really sad that Wizard World cancelled the Boston Convention after just one year. Barely anyone came, but thats because they had practically no one there and werent announcing anything.

Ive got Marvel Editor Tom Breevort's email address and home address because he was giving away free comics earlier in the year. I asked him if he was going to be at the Boston convention and he wasnt. He has said he is one of the main people who does talent scouting and I suppose I should email him and ask him if I can send some samples of my work directly to him? I'm wondering if thats a good idea or not. It could seem snobby, but then again what if he doesnt mind and I missed my oppurtunity?

Any ideas anyone?


Thanks again(Gosh I love this place)

-Michael

[Michael P]

I realized I turned this thread into one all about me.

Alan,

You send your pencils off to Mark and he inks them. What happens next? Does he send them to Marvel NYC? Also, do you get the inked work back or is it property of Marvel?


-Michael

[Alan Davis]

Mark sends the pages to Marvel. They own all rights under the work for hire agreement but return the original art (15-8 split) to myself and Mark.

Alan