decent ink?

[Row]

Hello Mr Davis, I thought I'd take you up on the offer to answer any art related questions that we may all have.

I'm also throwing this open to anyone who might be able to give me an answer to this as it's driving me up the wall.

I'm currently using Rotring ink which is great while inking with a brush as it gives a nice finish, but it tends to clog up if I try using a pen nib.
I've messed around with higgins black magic which is great for penwork but not so hot for brush line work, as I find it a little too watery ( I've even left it open to the air for a few day to see if it would thicken up a touch, but no luck).

I know the simple answer would be to mix and match the inks for the different line work I'm doing, but the inks have different finishes when dry (the rotring has an almost glossy sheen, while the black magic has a matt finish).

Does anyone know of a good brand for both brush and pen line work? or what ratio's to mix both inks? ( I remember Cam Kennedy telling me once that he mixes his own ink from two seperate brands).

If anyone has any suggestions, you'd be saving the last of my hair from falling out.

All the best and thanks in advance.

Row.

[Darren Taylor]

If anyone has any suggestions, you be saving the last of my hair from falling out.

Row.

Hi Row, I -also- use Rotring ink with both brush and nib. I had found the same problem that you mention. My "solution" [however helpful it is] was to add water to the Rotring ink. I usually add about a tea-spoon full to 20ml of ink. The nib seems to handle the ink a lot better at that consistency. I will note that -whenever- using a wash or -any- amount of "thinned" ink that -obviously- water being prone to evaporation that this is only a temporary meassure. I have a seperate sealable ink pot that I use which seems to help with the evaporation problem.

I hope that helps a little in the meantime while you wait for someone to point you in the right direction.

Regards,
Darren Taylor

[Darren Taylor]

Oh and I meant to add that I've heard a lot of people swear-by India ink, although I wasn't overly keen on it myself.

[Row]

Cheers for the tip Darren, I'll give that a try

I've tried indian ink too, but I found it blocked the the brushes ferrule splitting the hairs like crazy if they're not cleaned out throughly, ruined a couple of brushes that way and why I went with the rotring ink.

All the best.

Row.

[Alan Davis]

I have never thought of myself as an inker-- I use ink as the final stage of drawing rather than adding a ‘French polish’ to the linework. I draw quickly and haven’t the patience or control for real inking-- which is why my own inking is always so scrappy.

When I did ink regularly I rarely needed to dilute the Rotring ink I used (possibly the recipe has changed?). Absorbency of the paper, humidity and temperature of the workplace are obviously important-- so the speed at which I worked may have helped me avoid some problems.

I have found that storage of the ink is an extremely crucial consideration. Never shake the bottle. Let the residue sludge settle and don’t try to use the dregs. I bought a bulk assignment of twenty four 250ml bottles twenty years ago and, even though I gave a number away to other artists, I’m still using the same stock.
I think Mark Farmer uses distilled water to dilute his Rotring ink but I’ll need to check.

A couple of tips that may be of interest--

When I first started working at 2000AD Robin Smith put me onto an Osmoroid ‘sketch’ fountain pen which is a bit of a blunt instrument compared to many of the flexible nibs but served my needs for years. The Rotring ink flowed well without any dilution and if it did get clogged it was easy to disassemble and clean.

An excellent tip Dave Gibbons gave me, when I first met him ‘in the olden days’, was to use cotton buds for filling in solid blacks. Cheap, convenient and saves ruining brushes.

Purely as a matter of opinion, I don’t think there is a problem with having different types of ink on a page—even felt tip markers. As long as it is dark enough to print, it serves its function. I believe the published image is more important than the integrity of the original page.

Alan

[Row]

Cheers Alan.

I'd heard mention of someone using cotton buds to block in large black areas, didn't realize it was Dave Gibbons. Have to try that and spare my poor brushes

I think the recipe may have changed slighty or that there maybe something different in that production batch, as the bottle I'd used before ( and had been using for around 6 years) was fine, the bottle I'm using now seems to be slighty thicker ( not sure if there's a shellac content like indian ink or some chemical alternative used in it).

Normally I wouldn't be too fussed about using 2 brands on a page for a strip, but I'm doing 2 commissions at the moment and want to keep the same ink 'lustre' across the image, so I'll give the distilled water a bash.

I'll have to have a shop around on the net to see if I can find one of the pens that Robin Smith put you on to, I'm not very happy using flexible nibs these days through lack of practise ( Doug Church twisted my arm into using a brush many, many years ago and it's kind of stuck), I mostly use the nibs for working on hands or distant/ background figures and details when it's impossible to do with brush.

Thanks once again for the advice.

All the best

Row.

[DungeonmasterJim]

I kinda like the Rapidograph pens by KOH-I-NOOR and the ink they use . The company only recommends it's own ink. It's probably my favorite ink, too.

I'm going to guess that KOH-I-NOOR pens are availiable on the web if people don't have regular access to them. I usually pay about $25 U.S. dollars per pen. Can't recall what the ink costs but it comes in fairly small bottles.

DM Jim

[Robin Riggs]

I usually pay about $25 U.S. dollars per pen.

Oh, you don't want to pay that much unless you really need a specific size. Dick Blick has a 7 pen set for just $49.98.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz210/03/

As for ink for brush and nib I'm happy with Pelikan. Whatever ink you use I'd disagree with Alan here and say that it's always a good idea to keep the ink well stirred. For diluting ink that's a bit too thick to flow properly I generally just use tap water. Some swear that a squirt of Windex works wonders.

[Darren Taylor]

Robin, am I going crazy or have you "recently" moved to New York?

I though you were from the U.K!?

The only reason I picked up on it was your DickBlick link...I was going to ask you whether you thought the international postage merited the use of this site* until I noted that your "location:" was New York

* Accepting that your comment was provided for another American poster.

-Darren

[Row]

Thanks for the recommendation Jim,

I use to have a few Rapiographs made by rotring, but defected to the Isographs that Staedtler make, soley because they seem to be less trouble to clean and a damn sight cheaper, I tend to only use them for background stuff, normally buildings, panel borders or for stippling effects, rather than details on people as I find the line too static.

Cheer Robin,

Funnily enough, while I was in town yesterday I was looking at the Pelikan inks, I might pick a bottle up and give it a whirl on some other stuff I'm doing.
Not too sure about the windex... I know that brushes have a normal life span of 'x' amount of years depending on how you look after them, but wouldn't the chemicals in the windex damage the sable hair of the brush in a shorter period of time? Think I might stick to adding a little water to dilute it... seems less expensive on the brushes, lol

Thanks once again.

All the best.

Row.

[Robin Riggs]

Robin, am I going crazy or have you "recently" moved to New York?

I though you were from the U.K!?

Not all that recent, Darren. I moved from East Sussex to New York just over 7 years ago.

[Robin Riggs]

Not too sure about the windex... I know that brushes have a normal life span of 'x' amount of years depending on how you look after them, but wouldn't the chemicals in the windex damage the sable hair of the brush in a shorter period of time?

I've never tried it myself but some inkers tell me it's very effective. I don't think it would be all that harmefull to brushes. It's basically just a detergent with an amonia base. I used to use amonia to cut Speedball Super Black when I was using that ink for a while but aside from the smell I didn't have any problems with it. I would think that the detergent in Windex may actually be good for the brush.

[Darren Taylor]

Not all that recent, Darren. I moved from East Sussex to New York just over 7 years ago.

Dammit...I thought I was on your Newsletters mailing list

[Darren Taylor]

I recall [regretfully not the name] Bryan Hitch telling me about an inker [Spanish, Argintinian...shrugs] whom they met. And the subject of splitting brush hairs came up. this inker pulled out a brush that was dog-eared and split beyond all semblance of it's original retail look.

He then inked some quick lines demonstrating some great finesse and variable line weights.

The "moral" was, that it's not the tools that are to blame for poor inking!

I decided to try this and kept a brush until it split (usually five months of use for me) I then persivered. Four years afterwards I was still using it. although not as consistantly as i had been at the outset [but then my whole inking style had changed by then and i was no longer inking exclusively by brush!]

Seems that as a standard operating practice i'm aware of my own skill level and therefor the lines I can muster from a brush but through time the brush begins to tell you what it can do too.

As any inker will tell you when it comes to brushes, they each have their own personality. I now retain the best "characters" no matter how dogeared they become. Name them! it's harder to throw away "Sigmund" than some nameless brush

I find that some are better at different techniques or lend themselves to particular textures more than others.

[DungeonmasterJim]

Thanks for the heads up on Dick Blitz, Robin.

Just wish I'd known about it before I bought all my pens.



Well, at least I only bought the pens when I had a 40% one item coupon at my local A.C. Moore. I'm a little cheap so that's the only time I'd buy them. So after remembering, I did only pay about $13 to $15 per pen.

But that bulk deal is STILL better! Ugh!



DM Jim