Goofy question

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DungeonmasterJim
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Goofy question

Post by DungeonmasterJim »

Hello sir,

Since your well known for drawing good looking women in your comics, I was wondering how you got so good at drawing high heels. Seems a good chunk of comic artists don't draw feet well or shoes.

Guess I really just wanted to post because I haven't in a while although I lurk here a lot.

DM Jim
Alan Davis
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Post by Alan Davis »

It’s not a goofy question Jim but I must defer to your obvious expertise of high heel shoes.

The problem with drawing is often not with what appears to be wrong but in a related area… so your observation that some artists don’t draw feet well might explain why the shoes look wrong to you.
The foot is complex structure with twenty-six bones and around a hundred ligaments. Wearing high heel shoes deforms the muscles and ligaments of the medial and lateral longitudinal arches which exaggerates the foot arch.
(This does look attractive but continuous wearing of high heels can cause a permanent deformity. And not just to the feet. The calf muscles and Achilles tendon are shortened so that anyone constantly wearing high heels (women or men) can find it painful or difficult to walk without shoes/ flat footed. Comics are a fantasy form and I draw women with high heels because it looks attractive but sensible shoes are exactly that. So be careful!)
I have noticed that some artists will draw a foot as though it was moulded inside a shoe or boot rather than as complex and extremely flexible form— not as much as hands but there are similarities. High-heeled shoes are fairly insubstantial and cover just the toes and heel so I would usually draw the foot as though the character was standing on tip-toe and then add the shoe/heel.

I hope this helps.

Alan
DungeonmasterJim
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Post by DungeonmasterJim »

Any tips for hands?

Gah! I'm so terrible at drawing hands and I've got articles and books on how to draw them but they don't seem to help.

Thanks!

DM Jim
Alan Davis
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Post by Alan Davis »

Throw away the books (Unless you have a good anatomy book in which case memorise the bones and sinews of the hand then shelve the book for emergencies) and look at hands in real life. NOT at their complexity but at the simple silhouetted shapes and how their angle to the wrist and relativity to the shoulders and face convey body language.

Alan
DungeonmasterJim
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Post by DungeonmasterJim »

My apologies for not saying this earlier...

Thank you!

DM Jim

Below: An example of my piss poor hand drawing ability.



Image
Alan Davis
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Post by Alan Davis »

As I said in regard to drawing feet, or high-heels, the problem with drawing is often not with what appears to be wrong but in a related area. From the drawing you have posted I’d suggest you concentrate on how a hand joins to the wrist/arm.

Alan
deanis45
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Post by deanis45 »

What do you think of Bridgman's complete guide to drawing from life? I know Jim Lee uses it. Are you familiar with it and if so do you think it is useful for improving drawing anatomy?

Dennis Prichard
MiG

Post by MiG »

He does? A shame he isn't a better artist then. I used to be really influenced by Jim Lee but these days I really don't see why. He's got the potential to be a really good artist but he never take the time to develop into it it seems. The best Jim Lee art I've seen is from way back when he did them issues of X- Men when Betsy Braddock became the ninja Psylocke. Those issues are really good and I can't for the life of me understand why he didn't stay with that style, so much better than anything he's done after that point.

As for drawing hands and feet, yes they can be tricky but it's not that hard really when you focus on it. You can do the fingers and stuff just like you do a stick man, a joint at a time and you've got your own hands to look at to get the details right. Just don't draw the hair on the fingers and the back of the hands if you're going to use your own hands as references when drawing female hands ;) Also make sure to not put the hand(s) directly onto the forearm(s) since there's a small part between them where they connect to each other by the joints which makes them bendable. Same thing goes for the feet since they're really built just like the hands, only differently proportioned.
Guillermo
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Post by Guillermo »

The only way to learn drawing hands and feets, at least in my point of view, is draw from living models, nude models females and males. As many as you can, and if you cant, use internet. At some point our minds understand the shape of it for real.
Alan Davis
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Post by Alan Davis »

Dennis, I am familiar with the Bridgman book but I stand by my earlier post. A book can never replace personal observation and an over-reliance of another artist’s analysis of reality is limiting. I always suggest that the best way to study an artist’s work is in understanding how the mark they made on paper relates to the reality they are representing. If you repeat the artist’s interpretation you can only ever be a clone at best.

One crucial caveat to this is that for the purposes of drawing superhero or fantasy comics it isn’t enough to copy the reality around you. There are stereotypes and clichés that work in comics because they conform to or exaggerate societies (the media and Hollywood’s) idea of perfection or beauty. So, if you have short chubby hands they won’t serve as good models for a superhero’s hands—BUT analysing your own hands and those of people around you will allow you to understand how hands ‘work’ so that you can apply the knowledge to produce heroic ‘Michelangelo hands’.

Alan
deanis45
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Post by deanis45 »

I totally agree with you about Jim Lee Mig What a squandering of talent. Those psylocke comics absolutely blew my mind when I was a wee lad of only 10 years old. They were truly otherworldly so much style. Recently I bought the Jim Lee X-men Visionaries trade paperback, I still feel the same way about the quality of the art work,
Even though the plot convolutions and hackneyed dialogue haven't aged so well.

Observation and study and ones own impression from real life is what makes an artist an artist but I believe certain anatomical structures within the body must be learnt from a book or perhaps a model skeleton, if they are to be thoroughly grasped. I spent a whole year in life drawing classes and even though my drawing did improve I found I was still lacking a certain basic foundation.
Every one has their own way but the academic side of drawing is not to be totally abandoned at least not for us beginners.

I'm interested in Mr Davis' opinion about what happened to the character Psylocke as he was with her in the very beginning.
Can you tell us what you think of her change from wholesome upper class English girl into ninja death wench?

Dennis
Alan Davis
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Post by Alan Davis »

Dennis, I’m not against an ‘academic’ approach to art and earlier in this thread I did advise that a good anatomy book should be memorised then shelved for emergencies. Another book I have often recommended is Sir Ernst Gombrich’s ‘Art and illusion’ because it offers a tremendous insight into the ‘visual experience’—including how our perceptions of two dimensional and three dimensional forms differs and why. So, while I would agree that a model, like the Visible Man or a good model kit of a skeleton (I have both), are an excellent way of learning about anatomical structures a book has very limited application—and while it may begin as a useful crutch it can become a debilitating burden. Any illustration is a two dimensional representation of three dimensional reality-- A diagrammatical record of a three dimensional form created by one mind, with a fixed perspective and purpose, as a tool for another. But it’s important to remember ‘the map is not the place’.
In a related point, I always try to encourage non-artists to draw because I believe it is a skill everyone possesses but many people give up drawing because their initial renderings of their ‘sense’ of three dimensional reality differs so much from the ‘accepted’ two dimensional forms. Consciously studying three dimensional reality allows us to access all of the information we have unconsciously absorbed throughout our lives—using another persons ‘key’ to decode that mass of information may well be misleading. Even is all artists work towards a common standard the route used will be peculiar to the individual. If someone points you in the right direction that can be helpful but someone whose attention is focused on placing their feet in the footprints ahead will have no idea of where they are, where they will end up or if the trail runs out, how to get back on track.

Could we discuss the Psylocke thing as a separate post?

Alan
deanis45
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Post by deanis45 »

Guillermo wrote:The only way to learn drawing hands and feets, at least in my point of view, is draw from living models, nude models females and males. As many as you can, and if you cant, use internet. At some point our minds understand the shape of it for real.
My response was in reply to this comment from guillermo I should have made that clear. Sorry I'm new to the whole forum thing
Guillermo
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Post by Guillermo »

Well, I think I understand what you say, but again, I think mr. Davis is right. Books of anatomy and understanding of the work of other artists are indeed a must, but you have to remember that those artists change reality through their own understanding, and you must know that reality to change it yourself as much or as few as you decide. If not, you are learning from an allready processed reality, and you will be a second hand artist, or as mr. Davis say, at least as good as your inspiration. (That can be a lot, but we all want more).
So use both, drawing from models and learning from other people.

PS.Michelangelo answered to how to draw good, he said: "practice, practice, practice".
DungeonmasterJim
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Post by DungeonmasterJim »

Practice makes permanent I've always heard - so make sure you practice correctly!

DM Jim - who still hates his drawn hands. :lol:
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